Curse

Winterclaw · Mar 08, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Here are a few ideas to make tactics worth speccing into again.

Watch Yourself - make it last for up to 5 attacks, reduce the recharge to 2 seconds.

Thrill of Victory - change it to 10...28 damage, and if you have more health than your opponent gain 1...3 ade.

Soldier's Stance - Make it buff your attack speed by 16% if not under a chant/shout and 33% if you are.

Soldier's Speed - remove the requirement of needing a shout because there's only a handful that last that long anyways and some of them shouldn't be wasted for a speed buff. Make it last for 5...12 seconds.

Soldier's strike - always does damage, being unblockable is dependant on having a shout on you.

Monk Gsb · Mar 08, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Soldier's Speed - remove the requirement of needing a shout because there's only a handful that last that long anyways and some of them shouldn't be wasted for a speed buff. Make it last for 5...12 seconds.

its called sprint

MrGuildBoi · Mar 08, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

its called sprint

sprint is not in tactics.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 08, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Watch Yourself - make it last for up to 5 attacks, reduce the recharge to 2 seconds.

Bad idea - we don't need to make the energy engine for Paragons even sillier, WY! was put at 4s recharge for a reason.

Meh. Kill Paragons (... or Leadership at least

) then we can see about buffing up some of the party-support defensive options.

The attacks will need some pretty serious buffing (maybe making some Adrenaline instead of Energy req?) before they can be on par with Weapon Mastery skills, or Body Blow/Bull's.

As for everything else in Tactics, it's all self-defense crap, shit on Warriors and niche on casters. We can leave it all to rot and no-one would notice

Tactics needs a good looking at if it's gonna be anywhere near decent, I agree, but the best stuff - party-wide shouts - has to stay dead untill Leadership dies, otherwise Paras will abuse it.

Winterclaw · Mar 08, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Bad idea - we don't need to make the energy engine for Paragons even sillier, WY! was put at 4s recharge for a reason.

Completely forgot about paragons. The main reason I wanted the recharge reduced is there are a few NF skills that require you to have a shout up and I didn't think Anet was going to remove the new limit on attacks. Maybe they could change it to last for 5 hits then go half power.

Quote:

The attacks will need some pretty serious buffing (maybe making some Adrenaline instead of Energy req?) before they can be on par with Weapon Mastery skills, or Body Blow/Bull's.

True.

Quote:

Tactics needs a good looking at if it's gonna be anywhere near decent, I agree, but the best stuff - party-wide shouts - has to stay dead untill Leadership dies, otherwise Paras will abuse it.

Fair point. Perhaps Leadership could be nerfed to only work on paragon chants and shouts, that way tactics wouldn't have to be nerf.

Kanyatta · Mar 08, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Fair point. Let's just kill Paragons.

Fix'd for you

U Wanna Die · Mar 09, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

tactics is only used for heal sig, doesnt need a buff

/notsigned

Arkantos · Mar 09, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Tactics is mostly mediocre attack skills, shouts and stances. If they attack skills are buffed, they'll probably still not be used outside of gimmicks. If the shouts are buffed, you'll pretty much be buffing paragons, which isn't needed. If the stances are buffed, they'll just be used as defense for casters.

I really don't mind tactics being a bad attribute line.

placebo overdose · Mar 09, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

i would like to see tactics more offensive for example
disciplined stance for 3...8 seconds you attack 33% faster and if you are blocked your target loses all stances and enchantments this skill is disabled for 10 extra seconds
5e 15r

Angelina Collins · Mar 09, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Watch Yourself: Change functionallity too (5...25)armor for 10 seconds, for next 1..5 incoming attacks, char with shield equipted, next 1...5 incoming attacks are blocked.

Since before it was spammable to meet conditions for paragons, and gave an armor boost, now it have to be a well timed activation to be effective, wars and paragons normally carry shields and have high armor, the added blocking gives them a slight advantage, at the same times makes tactics live up to it's name.

Arkantos · Mar 09, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Watch Yourself: Change functionallity too (5...25)armor for 10 seconds, for next 1..5 incoming attacks, char with shield equipted, next 1...5 incoming attacks are blocked.

For a shout that has such a low adrenaline cost/recharge, blocking the next 1-5 attacks is quite overpowered.

Winterclaw · Mar 09, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

What Ark said.

Anyways, I think I'd prefer tactics have at a few skills a warrior can use and not seem like he's nerfed himself. In a larger sense, I think every non-primary line should have 3-5 usable skills for pvp or pve.

Dronte · Mar 09, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Simply revert WY, and increase recharge to 8s or 10s.. imo.. Its useless as it is atm.
Agreed on Thrill of Victory.

Other skills:
None Shall Pass! - decrease recharge to 20s or 25s, OR recharge to 30s and all foes in the area
Protectors Defense - nearby allies, 25s recharge
Soldiers Stance - also increase movement speed by 15%

Non-tactics line:
Skull Crack - 7 or 8a, and maybe move to tactics line and make it "... that foe is dazed for 4...12 seconds." or something like that.
Hammer and Sword line is pretty good atm, should make a few more skills usable.

But axe line needs improvement..
Everyone uses eviscerate+executioner+dchop combo.. The new buffs to axe rake and twist didnt change anything, they are still useless.
for example:
Lacerating Chop:
If Lacerating Chop hits, you deal +5...17 damage and your target suffers from Bleeding for 5...17 seconds.

Just a few fast/random thoughts ^^ I'll think about more later.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 09, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

The new buffs to axe rake and twist didnt change anything, they are still useless.

Essentially, that's because the whole concept of them (and Deep Wound) makes them pointless.

Deep Wound you throw onto a spike to get a kill. They'll likely be KD'd from Bull's/Shock already, making the snare aspect of Rake useless.
And ideally, you'll be killing your target, not trying to hamper then, making the Weakness from Twist worthless.

Now, you either overhaul Deep Wound in some way to make it a condition you want to stick around, rather than something you use for an extra 100 damage on spike (big change, bad idea tbh); or you remove the 'if target foe has a deep wound' clause from Twist and Rake (better... "For Great Diversity!".

Axe Twist will then be fine, at 5 or maybe even 4 adrenaline; and Axe Rake would likely be bumped up to 7 or 8 adrenaline (at 5 or 4 like Twist, it'd be too good compared to Cripslash)

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 10, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I was going to start a thread about this, but theres one already so I'll just throw it here.

Lets revamp Tactics altogether. I propose we create a new skill type. It'd be a bit like a mix between a stance and a weapon spell. In general, most (if not all) would require you attacking in melee (perhaps some ranged ones if Anet wanted R/W and P/W tactics builds), and would trigger when something happens. Here's an example (the skill doesn't actually exist atm, but it's just a concept skill):

Quote:

Victorious Flourish: For 8 seconds, the next time you kill an foe in melee, all adjacent foes suffering from a condition take x damage.

From this, we have a conditional (killing a foe), an 8 second duration (probably constant throughout the skill type), a useful effect (AoE damage), etc.

For balance reasons, you'd have to make it so that you can only have one up at a time, so that you can't stack that same requirement ones on top of each other (like taking 4 skills that activate when you kill a foe, for example).

That's it for now, I'll flesh it out into a full concept (make a new thread perhaps?) if you think it's worthwhile.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 10, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

That's it for now, I'll flesh it out into a full concept (make a new thread perhaps?) if you think it's worthwhile.

If I read that right...

Flourish. Skill type - a skill whose effect instantly activates when certain conditions are met.

Let's have a go...

Quote:

Bull's Flourish 5e 15r
Flourish. For 8 seconds, the next time you strike a moving foe in melee, that foe is knocked down and takes 18...67 damage

Quote:

Harrier's Focus 6a
Flourish. For 8 seconds, the next time you strike a moving foe, that foe and all adjacent foes are crippled for 4...13 seconds.

Quote:

Enduring Flourish 5e 10r
Flourish. For 8 seconds, the next time one of your melee attacks 'Miss', you are healed for 40...130 health and lose 1 condition

Quote:

Righteous Fury 10a
Flourish. For 8 seconds, the next time one of your attacks scores a critical hit, you are healed for 20...110 health and lose 1 hex.

Maybe. Has potential, but they'd have to be pretty gnarly to compete for space on an already crowded warrior bar.

Winterclaw · Mar 10, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I agree with Alex, the idea has potential but needs to be good without being imba.

Age · Mar 10, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I would like to see some of the stances last a little longer nice for castors eg. disciplined stance at 8 it only last for 4 sec.

The idea about WY isn't bad maybe depending on how many points you have in strength at 9 would make last for it complete duration and provide you with +20 armour.

What about ViM as only Rangers use that as trappers maybe not as much as today?

Thorondor Port · Mar 10, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Yuck...tactics.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 10, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would like to see some of the stances last a little longer nice for castors eg. disciplined stance at 8 it only last for 4 sec.

An adrenal spike or assassin attack chain only lasts a few seconds, too - the stances are fine.